NEWSCLICK NIGERIA PERSONALITY INTERVIEW: I apologise on behalf of my generation to youths for what Nigeria has become today – Dr Odutola
Dr Fredrick Babatunde Odutola is one of the concerned Nigerians shocked at how the nation has fallen today to almost the bottom of the ladder from its envious status as ‘Giant of Africa’ in the 70s and 80s and early 90s.
In this special interview with Olaotan Falade, Newsclick Nigeria’s Senior Editor, Odutola shared his sojourn into various fields of specialization recalling with nostalgia how he built his first and second houses at ages 20 and 24 respectively with just N3,000:00 and N6,150:00 in late 70s and early 80s.
Odutola said Nigeria’s ruling class who falls within and above his age bracket must apologise to the youths having enjoyed all amenities for free while growing up but carelessly allowed the country slipped from its envious status amongst the comity of nations to almost a state of oblivion that it is today.
The erudite lawyer, educationist, gospel minister and philanthropist also charged the youths to be firmly involved in the process of taking back their country which has been badly managed over the years.
Excerpts
Newsclick Nigeria: Can we meet you sir?
Dr. Odutola: Fredrick Babatunde Odutola is my name and it has not changed by marriage. It has always been my name.
Newsclick Nigeria: What propelled your diverse majors in law, education, mass communication and other areas of academic interest?
Dr Odutola: When I was writing my first degree, my project was ‘International law: myth or reality’ and I dedicated it to my mother who had wanted me to be a lawyer but I didn’t oblige because I didn’t find lawyers that rich at the time and I wanted a profession where I can make a lot of money. That explains why I first explored Education, Mass Communication, Marketing, Management before finally embracing law about 28 years ago. The law degree I obtained was to make my mother happy because I had already become all that I possibly can in other areas. Teaching was my first course. I still lecture in mass communication and train managers. I also have a charity nursery and primary school at Idimu, Lagos State where pupils pay three thousand naira per term (N3,000:00).
The first case I won for my mother as a lawyer was on a land dispute at Ajao Estate and you could see the happiness and fulfillment boldly written on her face that day. I also thank God that I have been able to do a lot of pro bono service for people who will not have been able to pay for the services of a lawyer and that makes me happy.
The other time I visited Ikoyi prisons, I was the alternate chairman for the NBA Ikeja law week and Dr Muiz Banire (SAN) was chairman. It was shocking seeing a facility meant to accommodate 800 inmates with over 3,000 of them. That shows you our prisons are congested and majority of inmates there are awaiting trial so that threw another spontaneous challenge at me that I needed to do more to set the captives free and ensure that they are able to have their lives back. I also discovered along the line that in most cases these prisoners were caught for minor offenses and they eventually graduate to be hardened criminal and that for me is even more dangerous for the society and nation at large. So aside my mother’s insistence, the need to help these guys lying helpless and useless in the prisons also spurred me into studying law. But you know a Good Samaritan is not just always good, he/she must have money to offset the cost of the course he/she is about to undertake free for people. In this case for instance, we have to spend money on filing, appearing, and paying other lawyers because you can’t handle it all alone. So before I came fully into law, I already made some money from my other businesses that could help the pro bono services easy to undertake. More so, sometimes we have to balance the ratio of the free services to those that will pay so you don’t run into debts.
Ever since I fully joined my law firm (I told my staff to ‘Occupy till I come’ earlier), we have been doing very well. We thank God and integrity goes a long way when people know they can trust you. We just got a woman who had a problem with her bank and wanted to sue but does not have the financial capacity to do so. The woman in question is a teacher so it was true she couldn’t afford to fund the process. We reached an agreement with her that we will take 25% of whatever we get from the litigation. We sued the bank on her behalf and the bank later opted for out of court settlement and gave the woman N2,000,000:00 and we collected N500,000:00 leaving her with N1,500,000 balance. Meanwhile, we still got another aN250,00000 from the bank for litigation. But you can see that it will be more tensed and almost impossible to be compensated for that breach if no one could stand for the woman.
I pray lawyers can wake up to realize that our service is to humanity and it pleases God if we serve humanity. That’s why I became a lawyer, I’m glad I did.
Newsclick Nigeria: What aspect of law did you specialize in?
Dr Odutola: In terms of specialization, I will just say I love contracts. I am an employer of labour, so I also have interest in labour law. And then we look at land law because I’m from a land owning family. My mother is Awori (Lagos) while my father is Ijebu (Ogun). But majorly, International law is my original specialization and it has worked for me because of my international connections in countries all over the world.
So, sometimes somebody will need something in Nigeria and entrust me and I will need something in their country and entrust them. So it’s balanced. But generally I love Nigeria. When you get called to the bar you become barrister, solicitor of the Supreme Court of Nigeria but in England, you are either a barrister or a solicitor. Here, we are both barrister and solicitors of the Supreme Court of Nigeria at a time.
Newsclick Nigeria: What are the challenges facing both the judiciary and lawyers?
Dr Odutola: Judiciary is made of the bar and the bench. The bar are the lawyers, and bench, the judges. The problem is that until we separate the running of the judiciary from the executive, it is not going to be easy. It’s like a case of ‘he who pays the piper dictates the tune’. It takes a brave judge to say Lagos State Government is guilty in a case involving the state before him/her because it is Lagos State that pays his/her salary, provide the vehicles and every other facility for the smooth discharge of his/her duties. So I believe in the autonomy of the judiciary for independence and clear functioning as a separate arm of government.
Newsclick Nigeria: Didn’t the Federal Government recently approve autonomy for the judiciary?
Dr Odutola: We want it to be in operation by separating the budget. Let the budget be with the judiciary not under federal or state governments. Let the judiciary have its separate budget at all levels.
The judiciary will function efficiently without any form of interference from other arms of government (Executive and Legislature) just like they (the Judiciary) do not interfere in their affairs. A separate budget will also go a long way to improve their service delivery. Apart from the foregoing, employment of the bench should be on merit and not political or mere reward for favours. It’s time we celebrated excellence and shun mediocrity in the judiciary and other sectors.
Meanwhile, some judges irrespective of the interference of other arms of government in the affairs of judiciary have risen above the bar. Justices Chukwudifu Oputa and Kayode Esho (of blessed memories) have their names engraved in gold for that.
Newsclick Nigeria: How lucrative is law profession?
Dr Odutola: I think the major motive show be that people embrace professions that they can do for free with genuine intentions of solving problems other than making money. It is in solving problems that money comes in but if you put money first you are going to fail. Identify the problem you can solve and ask yourself if you can run the services for free. If your answer is yes, that might as well be your sure profession to making money and name for yourself.
People like Elon musk and all these IT people did not think they will make so much money when they were solving problems but through the problem solving, money started coming in. So I will say if you want to look at law, use same yardstick. Identify the lacuna and where you can come in to fix such. That was one of my motives for taking up the law profession. I ran the business with my money for years, taking up on a pro bono basis almost all the cases we handled in our early years and we still do that till today. It was along the way that we started making some money.
Newsclick Nigeria: How will you say the judiciary has fared under President Muhammadu Buhari’s administration?
Dr Odutola: I will say 50% because many things are happening that we don’t like. The Nigeria Bar Association (NBA) has voiced its opinions on many things that we felt could have been handled better. You will see interlocutory injunctions here and many Judges have been reprimanded for this already and it’s like the politicians have been using their bad money to influence many things in the judicial circle that should not be. They (the politicians) are trying to mess up the independence of the judiciary and the judiciary should not allow themselves to be used. So I will say 50% . But it can be better.
Newsclick Nigeria: Why do judges give conflicting court orders?
Dr Odutola: We must understand that some judges are fearless while others are afraid because they want to be in the good books of some people. The fearless judges are the upright ones. if you are afraid of your own skin then you are not fit to be a judge. The upright one will just say it as it is and that is why we see that in delivering judgement at the Supreme Court, five judges may go this way and two others will go the other way.
There was a case where it was only Justice Kayode Esho that abstained and he gave his reasons for abstaining while others held on to their own convictions and it’s allowed.
It’s very important that anyone who wants to be at the bench realize that God is the ultimate judge and they should discharge their duties with the fear of God. That’s just my advice because there are corrupters of the corruptible in government. The corrupters of the corruptible will even bribe you with dollars in ‘Ghana must go bag’ but you have your conscience and you have your God. At the end of the day truth is the only constant.
Newsclick Nigeria: Do you think the NBA is still relevant in today’s judicial landscape?
Dr Odutola: Yes. The NBA is very relevant because it is still the first to be reckoned with even though they tried over the years to pull it down. We remember the Port Harcourt conference and how government tried to infiltrate and mess up the association but we thank God for the NBA of today.
The leadership of the association has been zoned so there is no problem about who should become the President or any other position for that matter. It’s the turn of the North now in 2022. You will find out that no Southerner contested for the presidency of the association with the Northerners. So I think that’s a good thing that the NBA resolved the issue of its leadership amicably to accommodate all Nigerians.
The NBA today will sneeze and the government will still catch cold because they know what it means. So that tells you the association is still the force to be reckoned with as far as the judicial circle is concerned.
Newsclick Nigeria: What are the roles of lawyers in achieving a decent democratic atmosphere in the society?
Dr. Odutola: Lawyers have a duty to enlighten members of the society that they must have a voters card (PVC) to participate in the electioneering process.
The NBA should be one of the observers of the general elections just to make sure that there is fair play for all parties. And I think we should not relax on this at all.
Newsclick Nigeria: How true us it that some people buy court judgements?
Dr. Odutola: There are many corrupters of the corruptible. If you want to be corrupted by them, take their money, sell your conscience and be disgraced. The choice is with the judge at the end of the day. On the other hand, judges can decide to call their bluff and say go to hell with your money, I don’t need it.
If we start to go back to the original values we once cherished in this nation, we won’t have any problem. Let me use myself as an example, if I want to eat seven times a day, I have the money but I will kill myself, so I can only eat two good meals a day. Good breakfast which is four slices of bread, one boiled egg and a cup of coffee. For lunch, I can take Amala and Gbegiri with Ogunfe (goat meat) because I’m an Ibadan boy. I was born in Ibadan (Oyo State), though my mother is from Ijebu Ode (Ogun State) and my father from Lagos. I spent my first 20 years in Ibadan so I still have that Amala, Gbegiri with ewedu and goat meat syndrome. My lunch is the only major food.
In the evening, I can take crackers and Green tea and go to bed because if take any heavy meal after 7pm I can have constipation. So it amazes me why people are stealing and worshipping money? I pray that God will help us and open our eyes to change our value system and go back to the original because the original in this country is where people will put their banana on the road and put three Pennies there so when you are buying the banana you are dropping the three Pennies. Those days when newspaper vendor will put their papers there, if you are buying, you will just put the two Pennies there and take the paper. The sellers don’t have to be physically present before you can buy from them. We must go back to that originality where there is integrity and honesty. I think that’s the main thing.
Newsclick Nigeria: It’s elections season now and expectedly politicians will storm courts…
Dr Odutola: Cuts in (it’s a good time for lawyers) Lawyers will take their own share. Delegates have taken their own money in naira and dollars, so let lawyers also take their own money when politicians seek their services. ‘Sue the bastard’, that’s the language of lawyers.
Newsclick Nigeria: But in discharging duties, how do they do it without fear or favor?
Dr Odutola: In my case, what I do is to look at my brief critically before taking it up. If I see that I have a very good chance of winning, I go to court. If I see that the chances of winning are slim, I’ll advise my client not to waste money. However, not all lawyers will do this. Some will just collect the money irrespective of the chances of winning or losing. I won’t. I will look at the case objectively and advise you, if you still want to go ahead, you won’t say I have not told you.
You may be lucky but it’s good for lawyers to tell their clients the truth and it does not matter, you can still make your money from the service. Sometimes, litigation can be cumbersome but for election matters, there are times you see tribunal here and there so it makes fast and quick money for lawyers. And it’s very good; at least delegates have shared bags of money in Abuja.
Already, the atmosphere is charged and there are bound to be fallouts from party primaries as we have it now. In some cases, some candidates are wrongly nominated and the aggrieved candidate who feels shortchanged will want to seek redress in court and that is where lawyers come in. And that is good for our democracy and judicial system that people can go to court to right all the wrongs because sometimes, politicians don’t care, they just do things. The fact that they have a written and signed constitution makes altering the dictates of that constitution illegal. Once an aggrieved candidate approached lawyers, they can go to court to challenge the aberration. And if the court establishes such aberration, then everything become null and void. Congrats to lawyers, we must get our own money too one way or the other from these people.
Newsclick Nigeria: When was your turning point to humanity or have you always been a philanthropist?
Dr Odutola: I think there was a turning point. When I was growing up in Ibadan in 1963 or thereabout, we had a sort of crisis occasioned by the feud between Chief Obafemi Awolowo and Chief Ladoke Akintola. I remembered some thugs in Ibadan insisting the Ijebus must go and my dad’s properties and businesses was forcefully taken over. During the crisis, I learnt how to eat Yam, Palm oil and salt. So, I have seen both sides of life. However, when the crisis ended and things returned to normal, I had a target of making some much money. I built my first house in 1978 at age 20 with just N3,000:00. I built the second one, two flats of 4bedrooms each four years later in 1982 at the cost of 6150:00.
In that same 1982, God told to join Bible Society of Nigeria (BSN). It was like a divine call because I argued with God. I told God my aim in life was to make money and not to be a minister. Funny enough, I was making the money so much that I later realized I could have ended up destroying myself if God had not redirected my steps to the ministry. So God turned my attention from chasing money to chasing human beings and that’s where humanity and philanthropy came in. So it was like taking Peter from fishers of fish to fishers of men and that in a nutshell was my turning point and I thank God for that.
I also realized later in life that while chasing money, I met honour on the way and I grabbed honour and honour brought more than money to me that today I can just pick my phone, call General Yakubu Gowon, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, Dr Goodluck Jonathan and other movers and shakers of Nigeria and the world at large. As Secretary/Chief Executive Officer of BSN, I placed Bible in the hands of Presidents including Bill Clinton at the Washington Prayer Breakfast; Ex-British Prime Minister, Godwin Brown at No 10 Downey Street. So I reflect on that and I say God, you made me place Bible in the hands of 12 Presidents. I don’t think money could have bought all these.
So I thank God the way he ordered my footsteps. Today I have children and grandchildren doing well in the fear of God, respect for God, serving God and humanity. And I think serving God and humanity is the best assignment to undertake in life.
Newsclick Nigeria: You seems to have passion for young people?
Dr. Odutola: Yes. They are the future we have been talking about for ages.
I challenge them (all young people) to be the best they can be and I really thank God for I’m a mentor to many of them. I want to see them grow.
The Nigeria of today has not been fair in any way to these young ones. They struggle for everything including the basics that we enjoyed for free while growing up. That was why I could build two houses comfortably within ages 20-24. How many Nigerians of that age can afford to do that now. At this juncture, I must apologise to the youths for the kind of Nigeria my generation handed over to them. And that is why (in orivate capacity) I do what I can to assist and encourage them. I don’t want to be remembered for how much money I made if I die. I want to be remembered for the number of people I have positively impacted while here. I thank God for that because serving God and humanity has been a very great plus for me and I thank God my children picked from that too and they are also exhibiting that lifestyle now.
I often tell people that if you are rich and are in position to help, don’t just help but show people how to also be independent so they can be of help to others as well.
I thank God that I lead by example in this regard. There was a lady working as a messenger at BSN. I don’t know her nor any of her relatives. I sponsored her education at the University of Lagos (UNILAG). To the glory of God, she a medical doctor today.
I always tell my children that if I die today and they are waiting for them to put me in ice block before they come, they will only meet the eight days programme because I have many spiritual sons and daughters everywhere that would have buried me before they come. If God blesses you don’t increase your spending nor your lifestyle but increase your giving. I have people today that sends me wedding invites all over the world. These are not my biological children but these people God has used me to sow into their lives and you know I just look at it and say God it is well. I think it is very important serving God and humanity.
